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IT Blogwatch

A Daily Digest of IT Blogs from Richi Jennings

PayPal "hides" new fee; causes customer revolt (EBAY)

PayPal has added swingeing new fees for personal accounts, and nobody seems to have known it was coming. In IT Blogwatch, bloggers unpick PayPal's surprising claim that it's not actually a new fee and that they told us months ago. (NASDAQ:EBAY)

By Richi Jennings. August 20, 2009.

Your humble blogwatcher has selected these bloggy morsels for your enjoyment. Not to mention if Star Wars was real...

Matt Mickiewicz makes his mark:

If you’re a PayPal customer, you may be in for a surprise the next time you look at your account. Personal accounts are now charged a 2.9% fee + 30 cents to receive payments for “Goods” or “Services”, something that was previously free. No formal announcement about the change was made.
...
They chose not to announce it because, "it would be a more useful experience." ... This double-dipping — charging both sellers and receivers for transactions — will result in a major increase in fee revenue for eBay Inc. which owns PayPal.more


Jacqui Cheng clarifies the "unannounced" claim:

PayPal has generated its fair share of controversies over the years, but it has begun to stir up another one by adding new transaction fees that affect all customers—without telling anyone about them. The company slipped the fees in with a more general update to its "send money" service in June, but ... the changes were so well hidden ... [in] changes to its User Agreement.
...
It comes off as a shady way to hide the addition of fees to mass numbers of transactions. Sure, users would have been irritated either way, but doesn't PayPal know that the way to handle bad PR is to be the first one to control the message? People value openness and transparency—especially when bad news is involved. Now, those controlling the message are other, ticked off users, and that won't be an easy one to clean up after.more


Jared Newman spotted this earlier:

As a writer, a significant chunk of my earnings come through PayPal. ... When money started rolling in last month, I noticed that a fraction of it (2.9 percent, plus 30 cents) wasn't making the jump from my employers' accounts to my own.
...
As I explained to Charlotte Hill, PayPal's PR manager, the fees themselves don't really bother me. PayPal can run its business as it pleases, and I have every right to take my business elsewhere. What's really infuriating is that there was no warning about the new fees, and no notification once they were instated. Hill protested. An e-mail did go out, she said ... and a post on PayPal's official blog. ... Well, not really. ... You're just being underhanded.more


PayPal's Heinz Waelchli tries to "clarify" (but just makes it worse):

Our send money service, which we updated back in mid-June, gives people an easy way to send money to family and friends. For our customers sending personal payments funded through their bank account or PayPal balance- which means for anything other than business, such as sending a gift, paying for a lunch, etc. - this service is and has always been free.
...
Recently, we updated our send money feature and also clarified the process of sending money between friends and family for free. ... I hope this helps clarify things.more


Wes Novack is incensed at PatPal's "shady practices":

You “weren’t really adding any fees” ? Really Paypal? I’ve been doing the same type of funds transfer every month for over 2 years and now when I do that same transfer, the recipient is charged 2.9% + 0.30. How is that not adding any new fees?? How is that a more useful experience?? The bottom line is, personal account Paypal users weren’t being charged for this type of fund transfer before and now they are. Paypal did not notify its users. Almost no one knew about it. Everyone I’ve talked to had no idea about the new fees.
...
[Waelchli's] reply still didn’t fess up to the fact that they started charging for something that was previously free, without informing their users adequately. Sorry Paypal, but you screwed up. You have added new fees for personal accounts and you won’t even admit the change.more


But Joe Lopez has an different perspective:

While some say Paypal fees are high, once you take a look at other packages available to sellers who wish to receive credit card payments, you will see the overall cost of setup and transactions are lower than any other option available. Considering that and the integration with your ebay listings and you see it is the best choice available hands down.more


lophophore has seen it all before:

Paypal is operating as an unlicensed bank. I am amazed that the Feds have not already come down on them.more


So what's your take?
Get involved: leave a comment.



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Richi Jennings is an independent analyst/consultant, specializing in blogging, email, and spam. A 24 year, cross-functional IT veteran, he is also an analyst at Ferris Research. You can follow him as @richi on Twitter or richij on FriendFeed, pretend to be Richi's friend on Facebook, or just use good old email: itblogwatch@richij.com.

What People Are Saying

The little guy get's screwed

Paypals "hidden" fees have really hit hard for those people, especially stay at home parents, who run a home based online business. I myself have an ebay and online store to try and make money in order to stay at home with my son...and alot of my buyers are other parents. Paypal is costing me SO much money with these new fees it goes beyond just the fee attached to a transaction. Now to avoid having to charge extra for a product, which will make it less appealing which in turn makes it harder to sell, I now have to send transactions through personal. BUT when you send money through personal you cannot print a shipping label. Therefore I either need to pack up my son and drive to the PO, or print a label on usps.com pay and extra $3 to send something priority when I only want to send it first class. Either way I end up paying. and I'm not some money making machine corporation-I'm a single PERSON with a personal paypal account. I personally am looking into other online payment avenues.

Unwinding Ebay / Paypal

** Unwinding Ebay and Paypal **

Ebay programaticly suspends ebay user accounts and freezes paypal funds while researching issues. Paypal (ebay owns 20% of Paypal) funds are frozen for around 21 days with Paypal and Ebay earning interest. Ebay offers no telephone support.

Ebay business processes and lack of customer support have impacted many customers. A successful class action lawsuit was filed against Paypal in 2003 for frozen funds. A similar class action lawsuit is likely in 2009.

Recommendation: Abandon Ebay and Paypal
Use: Craigslist and Google Checkout

Paypal and eBay have a monopoly and are using it to its fullest!

Our watchful government has turned a blind eye to the monopoly that eBay and Paypal have created. I suspect a few payments in the right places and voila - ignorance. Perhaps this golden goose will live forever because if you want to buy/sell on eBay you are forced to use Paypal. Is this not restraint of trade or what? How is that nobody else can force you to use a particular money source except eBay? I have stopped selling on eBay and sell totally on Craigslist and you can sell nationwide! Send Google your URL and add shipping as an option. I buy rarely on eBay anymore, down by 75% from a couple years ago. As far as I'm concerned, eBay and Paypal can GFT and they can KMA.

GOOD FOR YOU!!! Your

GOOD FOR YOU!!! Your perception is eye-opening about the gov. turning a bling eye! Bet it was that way with ENRON too, but when someone's conscience is still respectable, they can't "lie, cheat, steal, and decieve" very long. Where did this generation of thieves come from?! Anyways, I listed 11 items on ebay 10 days ago...(5 of which were supposed to be FREE) then when the payments started coming in I noticed a small descreptancy in the amt. Shrugged it off until I got 2 non-paying bidders that left me holding the listing & final value fees! THEN ... I really began to use my calculator! ANYWAYS, I got soooo fed up with the money snatching(and it's right before your eyes)... I simply got back on ebay and REMOVED MY LISTINGS!!! Hummmm ... Listen, even a senior citizen don't need glasses to PROVE THERE'S "S T I N K" in the HOUSE!

IANAL

IANAL, but being a monopoly is not illegal. And "restraint of trade" is something different.

However, abusing monopoly power is illegal. If you have an argument that this is what eBay is doing, I'm sure the FTC would be all ears.

PayPal Personal Fees

I have been using PayPal for years now and actually I welcomed the new changes (like I had because now even as a Business, if a customer sends me a "Personal Payment" as a "Gift" then I do not have any fees taken out. Give it a try!

Never had serious issues

I have heard all the negative feedback about PayPal for years and have been a PayPal user for about 8 years now. I have had issues with them that were always resolved. Usually it's stuff like them doing "random" security checks and disabling my PayPal card while I am out shopping causing embarrassment at the checkout. Calling them clears that up and they basically say they turned it off because they noticed a lot of charges in a short amount of time...IT'S CALLED SHOPPING!!! LOL

That's the only issue I have had with them. I have a business as well as a personal account and rarely use my bank card or account for anything. I wish the government would force PayPal to become established as a bank though. It would force them to implement the same standards as banks which would eliminate a lot of these complaints. Right now they make up their own rules and fees pretty much which is kinda scary. I have heard that some have gotten their accounts locked with thousands in it because of a shady complaint, etc.

I however, have been blessed and lucky. I love my PayPal!

PAYPAL SCAMMERS

Apart from the long list of secret charging from PayPal, it was only the other day that I sold an item for £20. Buyer paid £32 including p&p yet when I checked in my PayPal account it was stating that it was "on hold". NOW, I had never received an email from PayPal stating that they have this "risk category" thingy. I called them angrily asking why this has happened and it was only then that I was told that EBay had notified PayPal that any items sold under categories: Electrical, mobiles / cell phones, tickets and motor vehicles - all monies from buyer's will be held by PayPal for 21 days or until buyer leaves feedback.

I explained that not all buyers leave feedback and it would’ve made a lot more sense if the "risk categories" were based upon the value of the items and not the categories.

BUT WAIT JUST A SECOND PAYAPAL!!!.......How is it that I have to wait for my monies and you have already deducted your % to earn your interests. CONS

Now I have to wait another 2 ½ weeks if buyer decides not to leave feedback…..what a joke.

We pay a fee to list on EBay, we pay a fee when it sells, we pay a fee another fee to PayPal when buyer pays and still depending on “category” you will not get your monies for 3 weeks while EBay / PayPal are gaining interest on your benefit.

I’ve heard that people are using Google Checkout…….something I will be looking into……….

Paypal = eBay

Paypal is eBay. eBay is dishonest. Always has been, always will be, going back to the day it was invented. Like Meg Whitman (who's running for California governor) eBay is as clever at trickery, manipulation, double-talk and seduction as their most disreputable sellers. eBay doesn't have an honest bone in its body.

PayPal's fees raised 18 months ago too, and I left then

Frankly, I started taking credit cards for our 60 year old parts distribution business 4 years ago after years of billing everyone, or receiving cash on delivery. For as long as PayPal was fair and reasonable with their MoTo service charges, I stayed with them.

Then they decided to get greedy and raised rates by 50 or 75 basis points, so I went out looking for a better deal, and I found it from my own bank, RBS Citizens.

I still process all credit card transactions, except AMEX, thru a web based portal, no terminal on my counter, and I pay 2.15%, period, of each transaction instead of the 3% or more that PayPal wants... and I have sacrificed taking AMEX in the process, because they are also greedy....

So I have a better deal, still get my money the very next day in my bank account, and PayPal makes nothing off me, even though I do still technically have the account sitting there. I think I have taken two transactions, by accident, thru PayPal in the last 18 months...

Are you listening now, PayPal? That's about $15,000 in fees you haven't made off my account.... maybe it wasn't really worth upsetting the apple cart after all?