Industry


Ads by TechWords

See your link here


Let's end the H-1B best-and-brightest nonsense

A leading critic of the H-1B visa program, Prof. Norman Matloff, is challenging tech industry assertions that visa holders represent "the best and the brightest." His paper for the Center for Immigration Studies attempts to prove this point through a statistical analysis of labor data.

I don't know why he bothered.

H-1B visa holders aren’t "the best and brightest." It's inside-the-beltway rhetoric that evaporates in two seconds of debate.

The labor data, in terms of wages, occupations and companies that use the visa, clearly shows that the vast majority of H-1B holders aren’t building rockets.

The more interesting question is the one Matloff asked in 1998. At a time when few were even aware of the visa and offshore outsourcing, it was Matloff, a University of California at Davis computer science professor, who warned of its potential consequences.

In testimony he gave ten years ago before a U.S. House subcommittee, he saw the H-1B visa as a potential punch in the gut to U.S. students. He wrote:

University students are beginning to be aware of this problem, and though computer science enrollment trends are currently on the upswing … in the future this may deter many of them from pursuing computer science majors.

Enrollments were indeed rising in 1998 as Matloff noted, and then plunged with the dot.com bust and have not recovered since. In every interview that I’ve done over the years with computer science professors, the reasons for this decline have remained consistent. It's seen as a lingering effect of the dot.com bust, offshore outsourcing and its close companion, the H-1B visa. (For enrollment details, see Computer Research Association data.)

Matloff argues with a Grapes of Wrath fervor about a struggle he sees between the powerful and the powerless; students, his students, who loose job opportunities to foreign workers, as well as older workers at risk of age discrimination.

There’s a lot more here, of course, to this issue. H-1B opponents say visas holders are cheap, time stamped labor and will speed offshoring. Proponents say more visas will keep jobs onshore and grow the economy.

But the question that Matloff raised in 1998 may even be more important today.

If the U.S. opens the door wide to foreign nationals, gives unfettered access to the labor market and increases the competitive labor pool, will it also discourage U.S. students from entering computer science and related fields?

What People Are Saying

Ok. This is a rant. I dont

Ok. This is a rant. I dont think either Americans or foreigners on H1-B have the market cornered on the "best and brightest" or on the flip side the "lazy and incompetent".

What makes me mad though is the knee jerk reaction- H1Bs bad, American workers- good. Companies- scheming, greedy. etc..

As a foreign student (MS and MBA) at highly ranked US public universities and then a much maligned H1-B worker at leading tech companies (mgmt and engineering not IT) here is my $.02

Undergraduate students- My guess from actually teaching them classes- less than 5% actually cared. The rest were too busy partying or planning the next party. I wont call them dumb- they just did not care to apply themselves. But thinking back to my undergrad days (in India) probably was not much different.

Grad students- Very few Amercan grad students in the MS program. Most were VERY motivated and good. A couple you really had to wonder who let them in. There were some classes that Amercan students were downright afraid to register for (Math). I was in a Linear Algebra class of about 60 students. 58 Indians and Chinese and 2 Americans. Anyone want to guess who got the 6 As in the class?

Biz school- Business school is really not grad school. Probably 70% American students. Again a few excellent ones among the Americans with the majority being slackers and only interested in partying. The top 5 at the end of the program- 2 Americans and 3 foreign students including you-know-who. Before anyone says bookworm- I was into all sorts of on campus and off campus activities incuding sports and volunteer work. And I had 5 job offers before I stopped attending interviews.

Work as an Engineer: Company probably had 50 engineers maybe 5 H1-Bs. They were struggling to hire engineers. No one wanted to work in Minnesota. Very few people- Americans or H1-Bs had any work ethic. The few who were good and put in the effort were stuck holding the bag- you got all the work and very little of the credit/reward. I saw the writing on the wall and got out in a few years. The 3 people who I thought were good (all Americans by the way) either left as well or burnt out.

Working in mgmt/business: More incompetence. I am amazed at the people who get hired and then say, by the way, I need to leave at 3PM every day because I coach baseball, and I am taking next week off (yeah I know it is the last week of the quarter- but my Hawaii condo needs some work), and I am working too hard. The resumes that I see (Americans or H1-Bs) are so full of hyperbole and plain lies it hurts my head. I am not claiming to be a shining star- but at least I put in the effort and use the brains that the good lord (or evolution) has given me. I can say that about very few others.

If you read this far, I admire your courage.

Matloff study is deeply flawed

And Matloff is deeply biased against immigrants. Was this study published by a respected academic journal? No - it was published by an anti-immigrant group. Why don't you state that in your blog?

You are wrong and Matloff is right

I am an IT professional and I graduated from a US university. I was forced to work with those "best and brightest" and I can tell you, my friends that I went to school with who cannot find jobs now because of the H1-b program are much brighter than the average H1-b worker. I wonder how many of those workers are even called engineers. I am sure those sweat shops that bring them here are very generous when it comes to evaluating their credentials just so that they can meet the requirements to file for visas.

Not this time.

Not this time. This is not a anti-immigrant group
I work in IT. I seen how American IT company lie just so they could send this jobs to China. Another thing. Why China. We all know that students from China are all spying for China.
They are communist. We can't forget this. We have so many smart IT people in America but American companys all they care about is the money they could save. They don't care about America any more. If so then this IT American companys are communist too.

"If the U.S. opens the door

"If the U.S. opens the door wide to foreign nationals, gives unfettered access to the labor market and increases the competitive labor pool, will it also discourage U.S. students from entering computer science and related fields?"

Again why did you bother with this question just like Matloff did not have to do this paper - anyone with eyes open can see this displacement of good US students from the vulnerable fields happens every day and leads to a self-perpetuating cycle. It's the classic feedback loop described in systems dynamics.

I think we stand somewhere

I think we stand somewhere in the gray are, we are international students pursuing our education in US universities, but would need H1B to work in the US.

However, I do agree that H1B immigrants aren't the best and the brightest, but I do not agree the other way too. If we aren't building rockets, its probably bcos we are not allowed to.

Finally a study based on data

It's nice to see someone finally analyze real DOL data! The NFAP study that Gates and crew trot out admits in its own text that its flawed.

Please write your congress-people and local newspapers and let's see if we can get this stopped.

All five of the sponsors for HR 5642 are up for re-election this year.

Someone once said that if

Someone once said that if you repeat a lie frequently enough some people will eventually believe it. I fear that "the people" in the case of the H1B program will be the Senators and Representatives who have been literally harranged by Bill Gates and other industry luminarries to support the increase in visa numbers. I say limit any increase to those who will be working at universities and firms in a research capacity. Such organizations would be where you would expect "rocket scientists' to be working.

Everyone who works in IT needs to keep on top of this issue and in communication with their representatives to counter the pressure to increase the visa allotements.

H1-B

They are not even pushing the big lie any more.

Last month A.C. Nielson, at their plant in the Tampa Bay area, the television program rating people, laid off several hundred workers. About a hundred were American IT Workers.

They already had the Indians waiting. They already had apartments, etc. No more pretense.

Elaine Chao,U.S.Secretary of Labor, has to approve 99% of the H1-B visa. The other 1%, believe it or not, are approved by Homeland security (also known as State Security).

She has taken to bad mouthing American Workers and building up Indian workers. It makes you wonder if she knows what her job is. But then you remember she's a Bush Political Appointee and it all becomes clear.

Also McCain was asked if he supported the H1-B program and his response was he would support the H1-B program until the borders were secure. Not a clue.

Hillary of course supports H1-B.

I don't think Congress or any President has done one thing to help the American Worker or the American People in at least the last 20 years.

Its globalization

It's too late now for H1B law changes. India already the leader in IT offshoring and the largest H1B quota. Now you don't have a choice anymore. Even in recession the offshoring with keep booming. with debt collection offshoring in demand. Either US economy up or down, India economy will keep up to the top.