Industry


Ads by TechWords

See your link here


Linux bugs: Whaddaya want for nothin’?

Ever stay up 'til 3 a.m. working on a vexing computer problem?

I have.

In fact, I recently ran into a frustrating Ubuntu bug and found that I was in the company of hundreds (maybe thousands?) of other users.

Take a look at the angst displayed in this forum thread --  initramfs + busybox trouble installing -- covering 39 pages and more than 380 posts, dating from April 24, 2008, to today.

-- "Sorry Ubuntu, I gave it a try and you lost me for life.
Ubuntu 'just works'?? yea...right"

-- "I never knew trying out a distro was this hard. I'm back to Windows for now."

-- "Back to XP for me....pity."

-- "No dice...
this as far as I'm concerned is a showstopper... a biggy and should never have made it out of the gate..."

-- "I'm reverting back to windows: I've not so much time to waste."

-- "This does not speak well for the people responsible for Ubuntu !!"

-- "This dumping people into busybox is, as far as I'm concerned, a serious showstopper and will really give a sour taste for both newcomers and experienced hands."

-- "WHY CAN'T THEY FIX IT!???"

Well, read on.

 I'm a Linux newbie who just replaced a Win 98 system with Ubuntu 8.10 in order to get all my computers (Win XP, Vista, Mac OS X, Linux) to fully connect (i.e., share MP3 files) with one another on my home Wi-Fi network.

While I already had one Ubuntu box connected, I had some problems installing it on the old Win 98 PC.

The infamous 'BusyBox' bug

No matter what I tried, I kept getting an error that indicated Ubuntu couldn’t find boot-up info on a certain partition or disk, and I was "dropped" into a BusyBox command line.

I eventually fixed the problem with suggestions from the forum, but many people weren’t so lucky.

So I wondered about the Ubuntu bug-fixing process, in view of all the anger and frustration expressed by so many users. Was the company eroding its customer base and alienating thousands of users by ignoring them?

London Calling: 'It is a showstopper'

So I contacted Ubuntu's owner, Canonical.

Gerry Carr, head of platform marketing, rang me up from across the Pond and acknowledged that "It is a showstopper for those newbies who aren't experienced with Linux and decide to give it a go who download the CD and put the CD in their machine and run it off as a graphical install off the live CD … and it won't read the partition, it won't read the disk. I won’t deny it. It's tough."

"The fact that it’s free software we don’t take as an excuse for it not working as well as it should," he said.

"But it's a big wide world of hardware out there" Carr continued. "So really what we try to do is make a product and test and integrate this product with as many types and common hardware profiles as we possibly can. But, obviously, that's just thousands of machines with various graphic drivers, various hard drives, various screens … there's so many variables."

He pointed out various installation problems with Windows and said Ubuntu comparatively actually does a better job at working on the wide range of machines it could be downloaded onto.

Older machine? Prepare to get your hands dirty

Of course, he noted that the older the machine, the more likely the user will have to resort to some manual intervention to get Ubuntu to work properly.

Carr said the experience of being dropped to the command line doesn't happen that much when compared to the vast number of user installations, and he said "it will never happen" on machines bought with Ubuntu installed and preconfigured by Canonical or one of its partners.

So how do they fix these things for those others who self-install?

You could buy support from Canonical, but that's more likely for businesses or a few power users, not the typical desktop user, he noted.

To the forums

Most people go to the forums, Carr said, just like I did.

In the forums, he said, "There's an 'Ubuntu Code of Practice,' which means that you sign up, you're going to participate to help newbies, to be friendly, to not assume that people are stupid ... and people are extremely helpful and they are volunteering their time."

"If it's a commonly observed issue… our developers to an extent monitor the forums" and may take action on problems, he said. "Far more commonly there are established routes through Launchpad, the company’s bug reporting facility."

For pros only

There, he said, "Someone who is in the know, [who can use] the correct language, files it as a bug and pushes it through to developers. And if that bug gets enough attachments and enough people say, 'yes, I've also had that bug,' or the bug seems severe enough, then it will go through to our developers and a patch will get issued."

"If it's a problem with Ubuntu, it will get pushed to a project to get fixed. If it's a problem in an ... Intel driver of some sort that's on your machine, it will get pushed to Intel to get fixed. So there is a network for pushing these bugs into the appropriate place in order for them to get triaged and then to get fixed and then get issued in an update, in order for it to not happen again."

He claimed that this system is usually far more efficient than proprietary systems where you send in a bug to, say, Microsoft, and "it's highly unlikely even if you have a support contract, that you ever get to speak to somebody who understands what your issue is in order to fix it."

Do the developers listen?

None of the company's 180 developers participate officially in the forums, Carr said, though many often do so on their own to stay in touch with the community and what the serious issues are.

And the community is certainly active, with a recent listing of 1,005,214 threads, 6,428,318 posts, 801,019 members and 64,546 active members (Carr believes these are members who have posted in the past 30 days).

Canonical pays to host the forums sites but doesn’t strictly control them.

"They’re controlled to the extent that they are by the Ubuntu Community Council which is made up by some people from Canonical and many more people from the Ubuntu community," Carr said.

There's also a Ubuntu IRC chat room with live interaction with people who will try to fix your problem.

And Ubuntu blogs are aggregated here.

Become part of the solution

Another site of interest is Ubuntu Brainstorm, where people can suggest ideas or requests for future Ubuntu distros. Recently the site had received 14,378 ideas, which garnered 90,192 comments and received 1,760,170 votes on their quality, which is done by clicking on an up arrow or a down arrow, much like Digg or Slashdot.

The site also features a "Sandbox" where ideas await moderator validation before going to the "Popular ideas" section, an "Ideas in development" page and an "Implemented ideas" page.

Launchpad, on the other hand, is for extremely talented coders to submit bugs or blueprints for features that are considered in twice-yearly development meetings for inclusion in future projects.

Launchpad is used by a few hundred officially recognized developers with highly advanced skill sets who try to get their code accepted into an Ubuntu project. "You have to be very good for that to happen," Carr said.

Of course, most of us don't fit that description. So if you're a newbie like me, or even a proficient Ubuntu user with a problem, you can vent on the forums if you like, but you should consider going to Ubuntu Brainstorm and suggesting a change.

Who knows, maybe millions of users will someday be using a feature you suggested.

What People Are Saying

Debian can do it!

What bugs me most about Ubuntu is that it doesn't do what Debian does since years, such as properly supporting FakeRAID installations. Ubuntu also suffers from using crappy software like GRUB. GRUB works OK on most systems, but when I tell GRUB to install in the MBR one would assume that it writes to the MBR of the boot drive, but no, it insists to write to my secondary hard drive that was not set as boot drive in the BIOS. I first thought it is an mdraid issue, but not so.
I eventually gave up as I don't have the time to travel across different project sites, forums, and do all kinds of stuff to try things out just to be treated like an idiot by those who run these projects.
I tried other distros and it appears to me as if the folks who make Ubuntu are the most arrogant. And yea, contacting Canonical works out if you work for a computer magazine...try to do that as a user and you get the silent treatment.

First Rule

Your problems illustrate the first rule of trying out Linux -- check hardware compatibility. If you hardware is fully supported, your experience will go smoothly.

Actually, that statement

Actually, that statement about older hardware is kind of weird. In my experience, it's the older hardware that works fine with Linux. The problem comes if you have new hardware. Either driver's haven't been written yet, or it's been subtly tweaked in a way that Windows still works, but Linux doesn't.

My experience also

Older hardware has had the benefit of time to figure out what silly hardware quirk (which passed QA because the driver for the current version of Windows was written around the flaw) is responsible for the hold-up.

Now, if the hardware is both old, and obscure, that might be a different story. (I've occasionally seen developers request assistance in testing bug fixes, because they can't personally lay hands on the particular hardware, themselves).

New, bleeding-edge hardware, or hardware in which the manufacturer may change some internal component without notice, may take a while for new drivers to be written.

I am a big Suse user... I

I am a big Suse user... I should point out that it is an acronym... basically translated (remember this was a german distro originally) it means software and system development. And you can probably check wikipedia for a pronunciation.

-Cheers, Peter.

Rant

Some of my biggest complaints about Linux

1) The NAMES, Ubuntu sounds like an OS for a caveman" Look grog use Ubuntu" Suse how is that pronounced??? "Is it like susy? or suzan or Dr. Suse? ..." Red Hat? RIP Linux? OMG I should make my own Linux distro and name it an unpronounceable symbol pronounced "prince"

2) Package management. Hey I like choice as much as anybody, but this gets confusing even for someone who uses Linux.

3) Commercial software. I don't care if it's Open source, most people don't even know what that means. A small display at the local Best Buy etc with a bunch of pre-packaged linux distros and apps priced moderately with good support(thats what your really paying for) would probably get a lot of new users. Just a cardboard display with a dozen or so widely used apps would do it. A 1-800 number a web site and some knowledgeable (and patient) people to ask questions.

4) A little Marketing, now as an IT guy I usually think of Dilberts "Marketing two drink minimum" and equate marketing people with some sort of brain damage, but it's a necessary evil. As this article states there are lots of really good applications and tools being written Open Source, but if no one knows about them they are doomed. Some companies have managed to make some $ off Open source by providing support etc. Some large companies have given large sums to Linux development. Where is the Linux PC vs. Mac or Windows adds?

5) Non open source drivers, are you listening Nvidia, !!!! Yes you have provided a relatively easy to install well written driver for your hardware, why keep it closed? Linksys do you hate us? would it be to hard for you to make an Open source driver? Or just give up a little info so people like me who are inclined to do so will write a driver? Creative labs(creative tec?) (sound blaster?), well whats to say about a company that is so poorly managed that they forced users (including windows users) away from a defacto "standard" with some really bad decisions.
As a total geek with closets full of ancient new and in-between hardware, Frankenstein systems and open cased running systems, I would have to say Linux hardware support is at least as good as Windows XP and superior to Vista by a great margin. With the noted exceptions above.

This rant was written on my OpenSUSE 11.x(glad I'm typing it not pronouncing it) system.

Interesting comments

You're free to continue feeling the way you do, but I'll just go ahead and respond, because that's just the kind of annoying person that I am.

1) Names are entirely subjective, but then again if this is the first complaint you have against Linux then I suppose it's doing quite well. And I don't know if you know what the heck a "Mac" is or a "Vista" or any of these other silly names are, but I don't know if you can blame that on anybody.

2) This is understandable, so I'll give you a quick primer.

You use package managers to download packages, which contain programs. You download the packages from repositories. The package manager is the focal point of the entire operating system's software traffic. Everything goes in and out of that thing.

When you want a program, you fire up the package manager, click the ones you want, and the package manager will download the program, as well as any dependencies that it relies on. Dependencies are smaller, shorter files that often many programs will share to save space.

Once the files are download, the package manager will then install it and reload the menu, plus any manual pages you have or whatnots.

This is the key point to make about Linux software: you do not download anything outside of the package manager. There are very minor exceptions, such as Opera, but unless this is the one and only case, never ever just download one package and install it that way.

What you do is you find a repository, usually through a Google search or on the forum, and you add the repository's address to your package manager's list. Then, when your package manager scans the repositories for new packages, it will find them and then offer them for download in its list.

Do not add repositories that you do not trust. This is no different than in Windows when you're downloading .exe files. Play it safe.

3) You can buy Ubuntu with support for twenty dollars or so on disc. There are other commercial systems as well, like Xandros. They're not quite as popular, but not for a lack of trying.

And besides, Windows XP's support is ending in a few days. I wonder how that will play into Linux's lack of professional support?

4) Ads would be nice, but I find that it would be more effective if Linux fans would just name-drop in random, mainstream conversations. That might work pretty well. Ads are a good prospect, but people tend not to notice them - SUSE tried a few, as well as IBM. If you want to see some good stuff, check YouTube for Novell Linux commercials; they're actually pretty funny.

5) I wouldn't mind closed source if the drivers weren't terrible beyond all belief. ATI's were nasty, and nVidia's are okay but nowhere near as awesome as they are on Windows. And Wi-Fi is a mess, but those are easier to make OS drivers for without the manufacturer, as I may have observed.

I've never tried OpenSUSE. I need to get on that, I think.

Opera can be downloaded via package manager, too

In Ubuntu, it suffices to enable the additional repositories for commercial sources "partnering" with Ubuntu.

In other distros, one may have to manually (ie. with a text editor) add the Opera repository to the sources list. Opera has versions compatible with most common distros, and also a "stand-alone" (static-linked) version that will work on any distro.

And after that, the package manager will handle updating Opera, as well as your other programs.

Very well stated!

I appreciate your clear explanation of how Ubuntu manages their product - a process every bit as professional as Microsoft and Apple.

As an aside, the best product support my team has ever received was from an open source project. In the mid-1990's, we were evaluating Ada compilers, and purchased product / support from the major vendors of the era. The best support by far was from AdaCore for the Gnu Ada Translator (GNAT) - and that for only $1000 a year, much less than their proprietary competitors.

It's not the development method or software license that determines quality of support, it's the people. How often we forget such a simple truth.

You'll find equally furious

You'll find equally furious frustration from do-it-yourselfers trying to deal with Vista, a product of 10-thousand Microsoft jocks, laboring five years, at a cost of 6-billion US dollars. Now, Vista bequeaths its DRM kernel and device drivers to Windows 7, whose Beta demanded all manner of tweaking to install (even just partially) on a PC of mine that's problem-free with Linux and Windows XP.

Read about "How Linux Supports More Devices Than Any Other OS, Ever"...

http://tinyurl.com/5fnhv2

As Linux developer Greg Kroah-Hartman shared in that interview: "I went and asked every single hardware manufacturer -- the big guys that ship the boxes, Dell, IBM, HP -- What do you ship that isn't supported by Linux? They came back with nothing. Everything is supported by Linux. If you have a device that isn't supported by Linux that's being shipped today, let me know."

In my DIY experience, the occasional hardware "incompatibility" turns out to be a quirk in the PC-probing procedure of a particular Linux distribution. Usually, whenever Ubuntu got it wrong, Mandriva One Linux aced it, and vice-versa.

As Gerry Carr notes, hardware support is a non-issue for QA-approved Linux that's preloaded by the PC maker -- which is how the vast majority of mainstream consumers get it.

Note that there are retail editions of Linux which offer customer support. Mandriva PowerPack, for example.

http://mandriva.com/