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Ian Lamont's picture
Ian Lamont

The Digital Media Machine

There.com vs. Second Life

Of all of the emerging Internet media that are discussed in the tech press, social virtual worlds have made one of the more notable splashes in the past year. Second Life has been alternately celebrated and slammed. There was a big hoo-haa over Sony Home when it was first announced, as well.

Second Life and Home aren't the only players in town, however. At the State of Play V conference this month, several other social virtual worlds were on display. They provided an interesting contrast to Second Life, in terms of the interfaces, environments, and growth plans. I am going to describe one of them here: Makena Technologies' There.com.

There.com has an interesting history and experienced development team -- these are the same folks who have worked with the U.S. Army on military simulators and Virtual Laguna Beach for MTV. Nevertheless, There.com has had a constant struggle to get more recognition, and has lived in the shadow of Second Life. At State of Play, this was demonstrated during the opening night's entertainment, which featured a documentary ostensibly about virtual worlds, yet was almost entirely about one virtual world -- Second Life.

At first glance, There.com and Second Life seem similar. They share the basic concept of people designing and operating their own avatar in a shared, persistent 3D space. Movement and social interaction follow the same model (i.e., walking, flying, chatting, making friends, etc.), and the software clients work on standard PC systems.

But the differences soon become apparent. The UI is the most obvious. Forget Second Life's poorly designed tabs, palettes, and drop-down menus. The default There.com interface has a row of a dozen or so buttons at the bottom of the screen which bring up more options, thereby leaving the playing field easy to see. Additionally, while Second Life search is an utter disaster, There.com sends users out to a browser window to search for items or places, and then links them back into in-world locations. It's a kludge, but it seems to work.

The other big difference is the apparent widespread use of voice over IP, which is an added feature for $10/month premium accounts. A There.com employee took me to some sort of beginner's area, and almost everone else in it -- about 10 avatars -- were using voice. This was surprising to me, but she explained many experienced users with voice capabilities hang out in these areas to help newcomers, and voice is also seen as a status symbol for some users. Whatever -- it was certainly interesting to see, but clearly adds some additional ramifications for users, in terms of figuring out when to speak in large groups, communicating in mixed groups of texters and voice-enabled users, and hiding one's anonymity -- if that's your thing.

Digging deeper into the world, it seems pretty clear that There.com aims at a younger demographic. The demos emphazed the fun things you can do -- romance, racing around on flying cars, and romping with a cleverly programmed pet dog. Users can even get a paintball gun, which can be used to play spontaneous games of paintball tag with online friends (or play manhunt with innocent strangers, as the case may be). The corporate presence that I was shown consisted entirely of youth-oriented brands -- major-label rappers holding live, in-world fan events, and a giant Scion sim. This is a far cry from the still-active multinational marketing activities in Second Life, which include everything from IBM to Playboy.

But that may not be a bad thing. Second Life has suffered mightily in the business and mainstream press after the marketing hype surrounding several corporate experiments failed to generate much genuine interest. A targeted approach to the youth market may work better for certain brands in There.com. 

What People Are Saying

SL vs. There

Thank you for writing this. I wrote a long response to There.com member that describes my views on the reality of SL and There. I would like you to read it, and if you are ever in There again, send me a note (ReenRen). I would love to chat with you about this in-world. I have been a member for I think 4 years now and own (lease) the Cannery Funzone. I don't have time as a full time employed person with many interests to spend alot of time in world, but when i do it's usually quality time. I would like to tell you what life in There is really like for those of us who love it, appreciate it, and "live" there as much as we can find the time to, and who despise the x rated land of monster avies in SL. Yes, most of us find them awkward, stiff and unattractive, while we Therians are a sight to behold. lol. But Ain't it the truth!

Thanks again for your unbiased report. Ignore the silly comments below, they don't get it, and that's a good thing, each should live in the vr world that best suits them. It is not a contest. We need a variety of vr worlds, so we don't get stuck with neighbors who have opposite values, that's always a bummer. I'm quite glad that SL exists for that reason. +) BTW,I found your article via digg.

Hope to see u in There some fine sunny day! I'll loan you some cool vehicles, and give you a tour in one of my amusing hoverboats. Another feature sorely lacking in SL where you can only fly like a disembodied ghost, and the vehicles, last i checked, the wheels didnt even turn. ugh as a collector of fine vr transportation, i can't fathom how that could even be considered amazing programming much less "art"! Byebye, & as I said.. hope to see u in There! Where the livin is easy! and everyone is beautiful! +)

I tried THERE! For about 10

I tried THERE! For about 10 seconds. Ever stop to think that the reason Second Life gets all the attention is because for all it's issues and bobbles, SL does it RIGHT?

SL viewer is bad? Search is a "disaster"? I submit than anyone even slightly smarter than a cabbage can learn to run SL in minutes.

So please... spare us the bull.

ATTN: anybody looking for a REAL metaverse.... Try Second Life and see why "THERE" runs a far distance behind.......

there.com creativity

I'm a There.com member! I like There....cause there is nice and friendly people......but I have to tell you that from an artistic point of view...Second Life is quite better than There.com
People on There.com have only limited opportunity to create while in SL you have amazing artists....

I think that they are different virtual platform, with different approach and philosophy.....

There.com vs. SL

"..from an artistic point of view...Second Life is quite better than There.com..." etc.

I was started to write an essay about this, but decided it's not worth it. However, I have to say this much anyway: There.com member has a strange view of art, or maybe has not noticed the incredible art Therians contribute every day, and the basic superiority of the entire design. Theirs is a minority opinion, they mistake programming for art. Just a FEW reasons SL is NOT fine art: SecondLifer's are ill porportioned, walk like they have sticks up their you know whats, are not natural looking in any way despite the increased "details" and "resolution", if anything that makes them look more fake and creepier. Studies have been done on this. I am not alone in this admitted "opinion". lol

And the dumbest and least artistic decision was to have them "air-type". If this is art, I guess I've somehow lost my planet, as I have a degree in Fine Arts. One of the first things i learned is how to draw the body. It's clear the artists at SL didn't take that class. And the developers didn't either, or they would have made them fix it. In There, you see delicate, graceful, natural movements. In SL monsters roam the land. So what if they are highly detailed. Details do not art make. It's porportion, balance, grace, geometry. Check DaVinci and Raphael. SL designers apparently are not really artists but computer nerds, which is great, but the art should have been done by trained artists, familiar with anatomy, porportion, and natural movement. All sadly lacking in SL.

If There is considered inferior artistically, then Disneyland would be naught, for it is based on the same creative concepts. I also studied animation and have made them the old fashioned Disney way. I drew and painted them on cels. These digitally over-rendered worlds may impress the undeveloped eye of the amateur and untrained, but for me, it's an artistic travesty, a waste. Not surprising it's not much different than the real world, missing none of the ugly elements like cheap sex and violence. Sad. Oh well. That's not an opinion. Study DaVinci and Disney, then compare these two worlds. You might begin to see what I'm talking about. Sorry for the pomposity rant but I am too tired for mincing around the subject. I am truely appalled.. Thank you for your kind consideration. Folk art is one thing, and that's good, but these worlds are not folk art, and folk art, tho important, is not the same as Fine Art. Thanks for listening.

One final point: SL is R to X rated, while There is PG, therein lies the real reason behind the popularity of the former. Check the stats, porn sites always have the highest rates of popularity. That's just how it is. I am grateful There doesn't seem to be in a contest with SL, or it would drop all the standards that make me love it trying to "beat" SL, and that would require it to drop all controls that are needed to keep it PG (which also adds to the cost of running it obviously-the pg kids aren't adding much except family values, so people can bring their kids in to play, certainly they add little to nothing in terms of profit). Thank goodness for the goodness of There! I will never go to SL or anyplace like it. Big is hardly ever beautiful, and almost never FINE! Big and winner takes all are outdated concepts that need to be recognized as identical to the definition of cancer. I am glad I have an option for an adult VR world without an RX rating. Some of us are not sex addicts. And we like it that SL exists to draw them away from our "friendly" There communities, where there is still plenty of lust as it is. We're not puritans after all! +)

THERE IS THE BEST!

I think SL is not as good as There.com even if the voice is not free but always there is a way to sort a problem for example the voice you can register using my coke .com where you will get the premium account for free. And the grafics in SL are better but you dicide for your self, FOR ME THERE IS THE BEST!!!

BEST WHISHES!

since when has a computer

since when has a computer game been anything for business I mean c'mon.. you gonna play worm to see how many apples you get to see if you can use it in your apple selling business?

Hi Mitsuyasi, I too believe

Hi Mitsuyasi,

I too believe that it is fun! I simply cannot believe the levels of animosity displayed by people who should be treating it as a fun way to pass the time...Not to risk their life savings in speculative virtual land buying...And then accuse Linden Labs of destroying their lives...Or taking their frustrations out on those trying to offer them constructive advice...

I am looking at different platforms at the moment, in order to decide which one to use myself, to bring to the web a MMOG of similar nature to Secondlife and There. A very promising solution seems to be one offered by www.bigworldtech.com.

I usually spent time at Sanctuary Rock night club in SL. Great, fun place. Check it out sometime! :D

I have spent weeks diving

I have spent weeks diving deep into the JIRA pages of Secondlife. For those who don't know what that is, it's the "Issues" pages where problems within Secondlife are brought up for discussion by the residents and hopefully, through them, finding a resolution.

I could not believe the amount of anamosity displayed by the various residents towards each other and towards Linden Labs, the creators of Secondlife!

Tonight, as I was 1/4 way through investigating the 30 major MMORPG's (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Player Games) platform companies that are going to be presenting their products the Virtual Worlds Conference and Expo from October 10-11 2007 at the San Jose Convention Center in California, I came across a statement in a games forum that really summed up the type of debating that is standard in Secondlife JIRA pages. I copied and pasted the statement made by "Rekrul" (http://www.realmmo.com/?ul=Focus&il=63)below:

"Is it a wonder then, that MMO communities are essentially horrible. That there's so much whining and crying, such completely asocial attitude? Not really, because these games can only appeal to such population.

Granted, there are pearls in these games, and there are ways to bypass the grind, either through power leveling, exploits, macros or eBay - all very good things for balanced players - but at very same time, these knew from day one what most realize at level 60 (or 70 with expansion) - namely, that the game sucks big time. That there's nothing to do, no achievements, no nothing.

This isn't an insult at every MMO player. It's just what MMOs will be remembered for. There will be no historic note at how boundaries of social entertainment were pushed. History will remember today's games as psychological experiment of how masses will do the dumbest of activities for mere promise of virtual reward."

"SL is not some sort of Eden

"SL is not some sort of Eden in this regard -- a large number of basic actions and places were built by Linden Lab's developers, and the world is increasingly filled with corporate-developed sims and activities -- as I am sure you are aware :)"

actually alot of the things in your basic system folders were user created content linden labs held contests to pick the best and poof there you have it :P also - this whole Increasingly Filled? Erm, no - 20 Sims outa 1000 doesn't constitue a corporate takeover - you see you have to spend more than 1 hour in SL or There.com to really get the Jist of how these environments work. There.com is an overglorified comercial with built in 3d chat - about as user created as your Tivo. Second Life is an open ended platform completely encapsilated in itself by itself... I lost my train of thought becaues the boss walked in and I have to do some real work haha take care ^^

ps: IM me in SL @ Mitsuyasi Tiger
I'll gladly show you some of the truely awesome user created content you won't find anywher else.

"...a large number of basic

"...a large number of basic actions and places were built by Linden Lab's developers, and the world is increasingly filled with corporate-developed sims and activities -- as I am sure you are aware :)"

Whatever do you mean? Not only is almost everything made by residents but most of the corporate builds were made by residents, too. Residents hired by the corporations.