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Michael Horowitz's picture
Michael Horowitz

Defensive Computing

Bruce Schneier on eBay fraud

Noted computer security maven Bruce Schneier just blogged about his experience selling a Sony laptop on eBay. It didn't go well, he was the victim of two different scams.

After the initial blog posting, Schneier added a link to a May 2008 Consumerist article that says "... it's become virtually impossible to sell any sort of medium-to-high end electronics" on eBay. 

Both stories tell of eBay warning the seller that the buyer was a fraud. You can take that as the glass half full or half empty.

I have always been sceptical of eBay. From what I'd read on the subject, their rating system seemed too easily manipulated.

There's probably a safe way to use eBay, after all, many people continue to use it. It could well be that certain items, like laptop computers, are more prone to fraud that others. Still, it seems that an education in the possible scams is needed before diving in.

Which brings up the question - without going to scam school, can you rely on eBay's customer support? Twice the Consumerist article tells of canned responses from eBay that did not address the problem at hand. 

One thing I can't state often enough regarding scams and fraud:

NEVER trust the From address of an email message.

 


Update: A few days after blogging about this, Mr. Schneier sold his laptop privately to someone who reads his blog. (June 29, 2009)

 

What People Are Saying

eBay

I purchased a bad flash drive on eBay. It stopped working after I put my data on it - and the company that manufactures it said it almost certainly wasn't the brand name it claimed to be. But once any of your data is on there, you're not going to return it.

Dishonest Sellers

A lot of the sellers on Ebay are dishonest too. A seller tried to scam me a few years back, and Ebay wouldn't do anything about it. Even worse, I had to contact Ebay 7 or 8 times before they finally would delete my account.

Scam

There is one Scam for sure on eBay from Latvia.This is the most wanted Scam, criminal, fraud, internet for to many people all over the world.Catch him if you can..
Phone # 371-259-67699 ; SUHOVS ALEKSEJS 19.01.1966 Rigas 7 .PASU DALA

Personal codes/Identity No.190166-10146
Aliens Passport:Date of expiration 24.09.2011
International Passport Number: NR16225662xxx6601199M110924319016610146<<<98

When a seller does not sell

When a seller does not sell the item a buyer has bid on and won, what recourse does the buyer have? In court, you have to suffer damages; good luck proving damages from an item not being sold. Most local consumer agencies have regulations requiring sellers to have adequate stock before they advertise something they propose to sell; unclear if such rules apply to eBay. All the mumbo-jumbo ebay sellers put in their ads about a bid is a "contract" is hogwash; it is one-sided favoring sellers. What reason a seller or buyer may give for not going through with winning bid/sale is irrelevant.

The seller owns the item.

The seller owns the item. At no time does Ebay own the item - nor can Ebay force the seller to sell it. The seller pays the fees to list the item and pays final value fees on the sale price and he doesn't get those back if he refuses to sell you the item after the listing closes. Up until the time the auction actually closes the seller can pull that item. If he refuses to sell you the item after the listing closes then he is either a bad seller or something went wrong with the item. If you research the seller's feedback before you bid you have a much better chance of having a successful transaction. Simply seeing what you want and bidding on it is not a good way to buy on Ebay. When I look for an item I often bid on a higher priced item that is the same only because the seller had a much better feedback reputation. Ebay could stop sellers from refusing to close a transaction because they feel it sold for too little. There is such a thing as a reserve - which is a safety net for the seller. The item won't sell if that reserve price isn't reached. The only problem is Ebay, in its infinite greed, charges a fee on that reserve price and not on the beginning price. Selling on Ebay is not as easy as it used to be. In fact, it is SO bad that most sellers are listing elsewhere or have given up on online sales. The rest have diversified to other sites or their own websites and no longer show any loyalty to Ebay. Thanks to Mr. Donahoe the whole Ebay community has been broken and like Humpty-Dumpty they'll never be able to put it back again.

"Which brings up the

"Which brings up the question - without going to scam school, can you rely on eBay's customer support?"

That's your first mistake - there is no such thing as Ebay customer support. Just a machine that sends you canned replies. Your second mistake is believing you can sell anything of worth on Ebay. They have stripped the seller of all rights and made him vulnerable to any scam buyer who comes along. Today's Ebay is good for those selling junk out of their basements or garages - or supersellers who drop ship junk from china ;-)

Ex-10 year Ebay seller.

"Today's Ebay is good for

"Today's Ebay is good for those selling junk out of their basements or garages - or supersellers who drop ship junk from china ;-)"

eBay is not longer good at the former, only the latter. Junk from China is all that's there these days.

This can not be said

This can not be said enought!!! EBAY HAS NO CUSTOMER SUPPORT!!! In all honestly they could care less if you get scammed. They are even involved in these scams. I bought an item from seller from Illinois. But when I received the pirated software, Paypals dispute department(The machine which sends out the canned instructions) says I have to send the pirated software back to China. Hmmm funny, Ebays sellers page says the seller is from Illinois. Why is the dispute department telling me to ship the software back to China??? Like I said EBAY IS A PART OF THE SCAM!!! And guess what, no one to talk to from ebay or paypal(not a pal of mine) about the problem.

Well of course if they keep

Well of course if they keep this up, they'll end up inviting people with a need for some political whipping boy to think "Hey, maybe eBay needs follow the same rules as everyone else" but by then the company will be obsolete. Remember newspapers? How many actually subscribe anymore? They made themselves obsolete by essentially being AP-release copying machines.