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Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

Cyber Cynic

Struggling towards a great Linux desktop

22 comments

TAGS:CNR, Linux desktop package manager, Xandros Linspire
IT TOPICS:Desktop Applications, Development, Hardware, Linux, Open Source, Operating Systems, Software

I'm very happy with my Linux desktop. To be precise, I'm very happy with SLED (SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop) 10 SP2; openSUSE 11, Kubuntu 8.04, Mint 5 and MEPIS 7. I'm also getting fond of Fedora 9.

Anyone see the problem here? I do.

That's too many desktops, except for a nut case like yours truly who really likes playing with operating systems. Most people, most sane people anyway, want one desktop that works for them and can at least get along with the other desktops in the office.

The beauty of Linux is that you can have a safe, powerful desktop operating system. The ugly thing about Linux is that it can you also give you enough options to drive you batty.

Now, I can tell you, after asking a few questions what Linux is likely to work best for you. Three quick examples: You want a desktop to deploy over an enterprise; SLED 10 SP2's your best choice. Want one for the home, right now I'd say Ubuntu/Kubuntu 8.04 pre-installed on a Dell PC or Mint if you want to do it yourself. Want one that looks and acts a lot like Windows XP, then Xandros comes to mind.

I'm not going into the details of why I made those calls; those are stories for another day, but all these operating system share a problem: they have little rhyme or reason in how they enable you to install programs.

On SLED or openSUSE, you use a tool called YaST. On one of the Debian/Ubuntu Linux family - Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Mint and MEPIS of the ones I've mentioned here today, you're probably best off using Synaptic. On Fedora 9, the newest version, it's PackageKit. If you're running an older copy of Fedora, it's Yum. These programs, call package managers, are easy to use... once you get the hang of them. If you need to work at a level beneath that you'll find a complex and downright creaky infrastructure of different approaches all designed to put a working program on your desktop.

Fortunately for desktop Linux users, it does work. These days most of you don't need to worry about picking between any of these options. You can buy -- you lucky dogs you -- a PC from Asus, Dell, HP, or Lenovo that gives you a Linux already set up, ready to run and ready to install programs for you.

Of course, now you need to figure out which programs you want, and that can get tricky. Chances are you know OpenOffice is a great pick for an office suite. But, what about an open-source replacement for Quicken? Hint: Try GnuCash.

The package managers make it easy to install a program. They don't make it easy for you to find the right program to install.

That's why I was so excited when Linspire first announced that it was putting up a distribution agnostic combination of package manager and Wiki-ed software review site CNR (Click 'N Run). You can think of it as being a lot like Download.com or TuCows and you won't be far wrong.

Well, that was the idea. The reality had a lot of rough edges. That's why I'm cautious optimistic about Xandros, the oldest of the desktop Linux distributors, buying Linspire. According to Xandros' CEO, Andreas Typaldos, Xandros intends on perfecting CNR and using it so that desktop Linux users, regardless of what brand of Linux they're running, can use a Web-based, one-click software delivery system to update and enhance their platform.

Xandros should have the cash to pull this off. The growing popularity of Asus' inexpensive Linux Eee PCs, which run Xandros Linux may not have made Xandros rich, but it should have given the money needed to take CNR from an OK beta level to something that anyone can use.

I like this plan. I hope Xandros can carry it through. If they can it will be another big step forward in making desktop Linux significantly easer for the vast majority of people who just want to use their computer and don't give a hoot about what's happening under the hood. Making the Linux desktop great for anyone to use, yes, the more I think about it, the more I it.

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Struggling towards a great Linux desktop

Submitted by Portable Storage on June 29, 2009 - 2:52 P.M.

Thanks it was an useful information.I think so it will work for me in future.

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Struggling towards a great Linux desktop

Submitted by jmacg on July 7, 2008 - 6:52 P.M.

As a brand-new participant in the Linux world, I thoroughly agree with Steven's comments. I've just bought an Eee PC900 and have been delighted with the way the pre-installed software works, even though I'd like to be able to access programs more efficiently, as I do with my XP desktop.

I have also just installed Ubuntu onto an old desktop machine, for Internet use by visiting family. After some installation hassles that resulted from not knowing what some options expressed in Linux language meant in the real world, I got there and Firefox ran like a champ.

I’m an experienced computer user who goes back to an Apple II+, and I've done a plenty of configuration and fiddling in my time. But I’ve moved on. Now it’s _applications_ I want to use – not the OS/desktop, which should sit there in the background as my willing, consistent servant, rather than my master.

At this stage the world of Linux is a confusing and scary place for me. The lack of standards is what kills it for me. With Windows XP I can buy or download an application that is certified OK for my flavour of Windows and with one click of a mouse that application just…installs! Then I just use it. Imagine that.

I haven’t installed any new software on my PC900 yet, other than what was available from Asus for automatic installation. Before I start to add programs to that machine, I want to set up the optional advanced KDE desktop, so I can easily see and run all my non-eee-approved programs and not have to start them up from a command prompt. Yech! Been there before with Apple II and DOS, but I’ve moved on. Just like people moved on from starting their car by opening the hood and tickling the carburetor, then hand-cranking the motor.

I’ve had a couple of unsuccessful attempts to install the desktop option on my eee. I’ve done a lot of googling on the subject, visited eee.user.com etc and I’m confused. Give me a single simple way to do things please – a way that works! As user comments attest, what works for one person doesn’t for another. How stupid is that? The latest thing I read is that if I do get the KDE desktop installed, my regional date and time settings will be stuffed up and will need to be restored by some arcane command-line fiddling. Life’s too short…

I haven’t had time to start adding programs to the Ubuntu installation yet – that’s set for next weekend. But again, what I’ve read doesn’t fill me with confidence. I can’t even be sure what Linux applications will work well with my flavour of Linux and I don’t want to stuff around finding out. I’m a grown-up computer user now – I just want to use my computer and not an operating system.

I can’t understand the mentality of people who have responded to Steven’s blog along the lines of multiple desktop options being good and standardization bad. I’d hate to see applications standardised, but I have no problem with a considerable degree of standardization in operating systems – at least within major flavors like Linux, Windows and Mac. Linux is never going to appeal to the masses while it is splintered into so many confusing and often incompatible sub-flavors.

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You Hit The Nail On The Head...

Submitted by Fred Dunn on July 9, 2008 - 8:55 A.M.

For Windows users to convert to Linux either requires (as the article indicated) the OS and Apps preinstalled (on a new system) as every distro seems to have their own method of installing apps where on Windows you just install it (easy,maybe too easy).

But the primary issue I think that is keeping more Windows users from migrating is exactly what JMACG said in his post:

"Linux is never going to appeal to the masses while it is splintered into so many confusing and often incompatible sub-flavors."

While we make fun of Microsoft's choice to have 5 flavors of Vista (I am not a Vista fan and will not use it at home, I have one test system at work that I have stripped all the UAC stuff out) Linux has more than 5 distros of differing interface, UI feel, and again that nagging difference of installing apps.

One other thing that I would like to see in a Linux desktop is an across the board acceptance of the DTMF's WBEM CIM standard built-in so that they can be managed more easily on install.

I look forward to the day when Linux has a far greater share of the Desktop OS's but I feel as long as there are these issues, Linux at the desktop is going to be relegated to only the Geeks (I use that term as a form of flattery) as well as the Geek's family members.

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Follow-up - my Ubuntu application installation disaster

Submitted by Anonymous on July 13, 2008 - 4:10 A.M.

Following up on my earlier post, where I said I would be trying to install programs on Ubuntu this weekend. I tried to install Skype, and the simple MP3 player, XMMS.

It was a disaster.

I started with Synaptic. It found XMMS, although it found various other programs as well. And quite a few different files with XMMS in their name. Which to choose? I chose one that looked most like the main program. It then gave me names of other files to download and install with the first one I chose. A pretty stupid system, I thought at the time. Why not have one obvious install file like Windows does?

Anyway, it roared off and installed XMMS - and said it had done so. Great! Trouble was, I couldn't see XMMS in any of the software categories, so I couldn't run it. I still haven't found it.

I discovered that a special repository containing Skype had to be added to the Ubuntu repositories. Didn't manage to achieve that, and in fact I’ve now stuffed up Synaptic completely and get this message whenever I try to do anything with it: "This is a major failure of your software management system. Please check for broken packages with Synaptic, check the file permissions and correctness of the file '/etc/apt/sources.list' and reload the software information with: 'sudo apt-get update' and 'sudo apt-get install -f'."

What is a simple Windows soul supposed to make of that gibberish? This issue remains unresolved, at least until next weekend, when I can get at the offending computer again.

I thought I'd try some daring command line stuff, with this result:
jmacg@ubuntu:~$ sudo apt-get install skype

[sudo] password for jmacg: [I entered it]

E: Could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (11 Resource temporarily unavailable)

E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?

[Gibberish again.]

Sorry - Linux 'aint ready for the mainstream yet, not by a long way.

Yet my Linux Eee is a little wonder - as long as I stick with the pre-installed programs.

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Some clarification

Submitted by mjt on July 6, 2008 - 4:16 P.M.

both Steven and Adam Williamson are incorrect.

even before Xandros/Corel (i used/liked Corel and
still own/use a legally-purchased copy of Xandros).

SuSE formed in '92 and its first distro release
was in '94 (a conglomeration of two distros),
with their own true distro in '96.

Slackware was even before that timeframe ('93),
as was a number of other distros (TAMU and
Yggdrasil, among others).

secondly, "desktop", refers to the UI on top of
GNU/Linux - more technically on top of X on top
of GNU/Linux.

KDE, GNOME, CDE, and XFCE are examples of
what a "desktop" is - you can run each individually
or all at once, if you choose.

if you step down, you have what are referred to
as "window managers". desktops have a window
manager, but are more tightly integrated to the
GNU/Linux core.

with all that said, i'd like to suggest that the
term "desktop" should not be referred to
synonymously as a "distro".

"distro" is a shortcut for "distribution", which
refers to OpenSuse, Ubuntu, Fedora, and so on.
for a more comprehensive list, i refer you to
www.distrowatch.com (notice it's not called
www.desktopwatch.com).

in closing, i'd like to offer an opinion. the
breadth of distros is a good thing - it allows
the eventual user to decide which distro best fits
their requirements. if you're using 4 or 5 distros
in parallel, then you obviously have no clear
goal with respect to your distro requirements.

regards, mjt - author, "Inside Linux".

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Linux Software Distibution

Submitted by Dobe on July 5, 2008 - 2:04 P.M.

There are several Linux distros that are anywhere from good to great. I think the Linux world as a whole would be better served if there were to be a standardized software distribition system such as CNR. It would help the normal Windows user to install what they need as it has a simple GUI and easy to install instuctions, icons and descriptions of what they're getting. This is the only good thing to come out of Linspire. In the meantime use Mandriva and any off-shoots that have been built around it.

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Similar Project

Submitted by Anonymous on July 4, 2008 - 10:29 A.M.

I don't know if you are aware of it or not, but openSUSE developers are working toward a similar direction while coming at it from a different angle.

1. openSUSE build service: this "project" helps a developer to build packages for several different distributions automatically.

2. YaST is being decoupled from openSUSE specific settings in order to allow it to be used by other distributions.

3. openSUSE itself already has 1-click install (which you can search for online).

4. openSUSE developers are working on enabling this 1-click search capability to YaST (http://kobliha-suse.blogspot.com/2008/07/package-search-and-one-click-install-in.html).

Conclusion: openSUSE developers are working on making a cross distribution YaST that can search not only for packages within repos that have been added, but also all available repos. Once it finds the package, it will add the necessary repo(s) and install the package and any dependencies.

This search capability is for more than just the package name (http://en.opensuse.org/YaST/Research/YaST_Interface_for_Webpin see "Goal" section).

No, this is not in final, ready to go form, yet. But I thought you might be interested in knowing the direction they are headed.

Nathan

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I have used Fedora, Ubuntu,

Submitted by Anonymous on July 4, 2008 - 12:53 A.M.

I have used Fedora, Ubuntu, Suse,Sabayon and PCLinuxOS and in all fairness, Mandriva is the best for me

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Linuux is just wonderful

Submitted by Hugh E Torrance on July 3, 2008 - 4:04 P.M.

Installing Linux and new programs is really easy with most Linux systems...Debian has over twenty thousand ready to go,Ubuntu,Mint,Mepis and lots of other distros are forked from Debian,there are at least three ways to install software and the command line is actually the simplest and easiest...sudo apt-get install ******* and off it goes...I have fourteen systems on hard drives and loads of live distros, so I must be nut as well.

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No such thing as too many of anything

Submitted by ntime60 on July 3, 2008 - 8:07 A.M.

So what you want everyone to wear gray with red trim suits too? No thanks.

The real benefit of Linux is the freedom to choose.

We can choose what desktop we want, whether it be SUSE, Fedora, Kubuntu, Mandriva, Xandros, Mint or what ever... that is the fun of Linux, to experiment to mess with it to tweak it to our hearts content.

If I wanted a common desktop then I'd run Windows bah!

Enterprises have a choice of what desktop they want as well and can easily enforce it.

Go on run off to China or some other place that limits your choice, but leave the rest of us the freedom to choose what we want.

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